Talk:Thales of Miletus

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Phoenician Philosopher

Peter Gulutzan, why did you undo my edit? Thales was Phoenician, or at least he is considered PHoenician by some researchers, according to the article, and a Philosopher. פעמי-עליון (talk) 14:03, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for the lack of an edit summary in my reversion, that was not intentional. I am aware of the claim about Phoenicia (see archive 2 for an earlier discussion of that), but when categorizing one should avoid putting a point of view and should stick to what reliable sources commonly and consistently say, see WP:CATPOV and WP:CATDEF. So I oppose putting Thales in the category "Phoenician philosopher". Peter Gulutzan (talk) 14:45, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, in Hebrew wikipedia the principles concerning categories are different from what you described. Thank you for explaining! פעמי-עליון (talk) 14:53, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thales is phoenician from 🇱🇧 Lebanon HE WAS NOT GREEK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1851:8007:D090:1:1:DA2C:3B99 (talk) 18:30, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thales was a natively born politician from an ancient Greek city-state in Asia Minor (now Turkey). He spoke Greek, but may have had some Phoenician ancestors. This article describes the situation pretty clearly as-is. –jacobolus (t) 21:18, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Busts of Thales

There are apparently two, one in Rome and one in the Vatican. The Vatican one appears used in this article, from a double-herm of Bias and Thales. The one in Rome is considered dubious but it also worth mentioning. Cake (talk) 09:05, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ursa Major

This claim is made:

He was also credited with discovering the position of the constellation Ursa Major.

It is very unclear what this is supposed to mean. The Greeks knew of that constellation and they would have known quite well where in the sky to find it, so "discovering the position" makes no sense.

It is possible that he was the one to point out Ursa Minor to the Greeks, the Phoenicians having known it and used it for navigation.

This definitely needs a reference and clarification. Dismalscholar (talk) 04:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

O'Grady (2005) Meet the Philosophers of Ancient Greece has "He gave astronomical advice of economic importance on navigation by suggesting that sailors steer by the constellation Ursa Minor as a more accurate method of navigation than Ursa Major." –jacobolus (t) 06:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently one source of this claim is a poem by Callimachus, Iambus 1: "[The son] sailed to Miletus, since the victory belonged / to Thales, who was otherwise supple in judgment / and was said to have delineated the little stars / of the Wagon, by which Phoenicians sail." –jacobolus (t) 07:16, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A significant -maybe - point is that at Thales' time ("epoch" in an astronomical sense), the north celestial pole didn't point to within a half-degree of Polaris, but was well away towards Thuban (I forget which constellation). So proposing using Ursa Minor as a *guide* to the "north" direction would have been a *change* to current practice. If, indeed, there was a "current" practice.

The projection of the north-geographic pole onto the celestial sphere changes on about a 22500 Yr cycle because of the precession of the Earth's axis. The proper motion of stars is also an issue generally, but minor in this case.

AKarley (talk) 20:18, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Olive Presses

In the olive presses section it is stated that: A story, with different versions, recounts how Thales achieved riches from an olive harvest by prediction of the weather. In one version, he bought all the olive presses in Miletus after predicting the weather and a good harvest for a particular year. Another version of the story has Aristotle explain that Thales had reserved presses in advance, at a discount, and could rent them out at a high price when demand peaked, following his prediction of a particularly good harvest. This first version of the story would constitute the first historically known creation and use of futures, whereas the second version would be the first historically known creation and use of options.

This is incorrect. The latter version of the story is indeed an example of an option if Thales had the right, but not the obligation to purchase or rent the presses. The first version of the story, however is not an example of a forward contract. A forward contract gives the long party the right and the obligation to purchase a given asset at a certain date. The first example given is just a generic example of purchasing something. The source cited correctly makes this distinction, but it seems to have been missed by the editor.

Additionally, the correct term would be forwards not futures since there is no exchange or standardized contract. HumanBeeng2123 (talk) 05:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation

This page needs an audio sample linked to the phonetic pronunciation of his name Tomhannen (talk) 06:35, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]